Bad vibrations Telford Tempest unvented cylinder

[stuart1990]

I have recently had a new Telford Tempest Unvented cylinder installed by my plumber and am now suffering noisy vibrations/resonation that sound like a whirling helicopter as soon as the hot water is switched on. This only stops when the central heating is switched on. The buzzing noise seems to be coming from the heat exchanger coil inside the cylinder. I have tried changing the pump speed but the noise seems to be independent of that.

My plumber has fitted an automatic bleed as he thought it could be due to trapped air in the system but this has had no effect.

I am not a plumber but would appreciate any thoughts ideas on how to resolve this.

 

[Dotty]

I'm assuming when you say the hot water's turned on you're running the boiler to heat the cylinder.

How has he connected the primary coil? If it's through a 3 port valve get him to check that.

Just out of interest does he have an unvented ticket?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

could it bee a 15 mm elbow dropped in the coil by chance ....some one told me once ,customer was trying to get him to do more then they agreed originally did not pay him in time the correct amount of money and he told me how he dropped a elbow by accident in a 22mm elbow

 

[Dotty]

oooooooo nasty!

Clever!

But nasty!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

ohh well , you know what some customers R like some times ! hire you to do the job then I will pay you the rest next mount


ha ha ha ha , hope is not this the cause of the noise in this case

 

[Gray0689]

If the expansion vessel piped up with flexi hose change to hard pipe / or the expansion vessel is to small

 

[SafeGasInstall]

exp vessel for hot water ?

 

[Gray0689]

exp vessel for hot water ?

Yes
Unvented cold goes in hot comes out lol (after it's heated of course)
The expansion vessel for the mains in Telford cylinders (and a lot these days)
Is a combination valve the expansion vessel connects to this vie a flexi hose iv seen them vibrate if not hard piped before
But also if only happens when the hot water is heated it could be a motorised valve opening slowly and the force of the water running around coil making it vibrate
But also it could be that there is a throttle valve (gate valve) on coil closed to much and cousing turbulence and vibrating through coil
Hope this helps
G

 

[stuart1990]

In answer to your comments. Yes the boiler is on and then as soon as the hot water is switched on then this resonance commences. It seems to come and go and occurs every 45 secs and lasts say for 30 secs. The plumber has the qualifications for this type of installation and has fitted others before without any problems like this.
The noise is definately coming from inside the cylinder and thats causing the vibrations in the pipework as I can feel it when I hold the inlet and outlet flows from the cylinder. As stated I am not a plumber but it seems that the problem is created because the pressure or volume of flow exerted by the water in the primary circuit is causing the resonance because as soon as I switch on the central heating the noise vanishes. I am guessing this is because the water is now circulating round the house and the pressure exerted on the coil is reduced???
He has considered fitting a gate valve as a bypass to reduce the flow slightly. Do you feel this maybe a solution?

 

[unguided1]

If the noise is definately coming from the cylinder, then I would contact telford and ask them to come and inspect the cylinder. If as you say your plumber is qualified to work on this and he knows what he is doing, then I am sure the longer this goes on the more money he is loosing on what should have been a relatively easy cylinder change, and he wont be happy, Also if there is a problem with the cylinder I am sure Telford would want to know sooner rather than later as it may well be they have a batch of rougue cylinders on their hands

 

[Gray0689]

In answer to your comments. Yes the boiler is on and then as soon as the hot water is switched on then this resonance commences. It seems to come and go and occurs every 45 secs and lasts say for 30 secs. The plumber has the qualifications for this type of installation and has fitted others before without any problems like this.
The noise is definately coming from inside the cylinder and thats causing the vibrations in the pipework as I can feel it when I hold the inlet and outlet flows from the cylinder. As stated I am not a plumber but it seems that the problem is created because the pressure or volume of flow exerted by the water in the primary circuit is causing the resonance because as soon as I switch on the central heating the noise vanishes. I am guessing this is because the water is now circulating round the house and the pressure exerted on the coil is reduced???
He has considered fitting a gate valve as a bypass to reduce the flow slightly. Do you feel this maybe a solution?

Yes it should work fine with gate valve to regulate it I'd try this first.

But as unguided said if the problem persists get on to Telford asap as then it could be a faulty coil in cylinder

 

[stuart1990]

Here is a photo which may help.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

can u pls sent some more pictures

 

[SafeGasInstall]

pls pls pls

 

[stani]

can you post a picture of all of the cylinder and pipes

 

[SafeGasInstall]

does not look good install out of the first picture
send more

 

[stani]

theres a few bob's worth of elbows

 

[Gray0689]

Have to agree looks a mess

 

[SafeGasInstall]

and the motorised valve at the back of cylinder .... ,unless picture is from the back ?????

I always put them right in front with tundish and electric

 

[stani]

I wonder if the 15mm in the fore ground is from the T&prv?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

lets see the rest of the pict ...bad install , after all plumbers are rogue traders

 

[Gray0689]

There is nothing supporting any of that pipework
My wee girl could of fitted that lot better and she is 8

 

[stani]

if cold water is from bottom left and 15mm is t&prv cant see the tundish will be within 600mm, definitely need better picky

 

[stuart1990]

Here are a few more photos. Hope this helps?

 

[unguided1]

Oh My Word, I am trying to understand why you have what looks like a 50L expansion vessel on what looks like a 300L unvented cylinder, It does seem excesive unless this is a commercial system with a lot of bathrooms, also is that a central heating 3 bar safety valve coming from the groupset these are normaly 6 bar
And the use of gate valves on unvented!!!!

 

[Gray0689]

Oh My Word, I am trying to understand why you have what looks like a 50L expansion vessel on what looks like a 300L unvented cylinder, It does seem excesive unless this is a commercial system with a lot of bathrooms, also is that a central heating 3 bar safety valve coming from the groupset these are normaly 6 bar
And the use of gate valves on unvented!!!!

I agree don't know why he would use that expansion vessel unless system huge but there no secondary return so this makes me think it's not (could be wrong)
The safety valve looks like a tprv as it looks 3/4 and how it's set up well if itis it's stupid
As unguided says should not be gate valves on mains the only gate valve that should be on is a throttle valve on coil

 

[Gray0689]

Try holding the pie that has the gate valve on going in to cylinder about half way up this is the coil see if holding the pipe firm helps the vibration?

 

[unguided1]

Try holding the pie that has the gate valve on going in to cylinder about half way up this is the coil see if holding the pipe firm helps the vibration?

hhhhmmmmmmmmm someone mentioned pie

 

[Gray0689]

Lol yes death by chocolate pie mmmm

Sorry ment pipe

Unguided don't eat the pipe to crunchy

 

[unguided1]

another couple of obvious ones is the lack of clips (already mentioned ) but also the lack of insulation too