Hi guys. I’m still very new to boiler fault finding but was wondering whether you could advise me on a particular multimeter or tester that would help with fault finding? The wife has been a good one and got me a Martindale ET5 open jaw tester but I’m unsure whether they’re any good? I can’t really find much on YouTube about them so any advice would be great. Plus, it’s not a cheapo, I thinks it’s inline with the Fluke 113 for price. Cheers
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Electrical fault finding?
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Deleted member 120897
I bought a cheapish Extech one (approx £35), which was good, although the batteries kept coming out inside, but that might have been because I was a bit careless with it.
I then damaged the probes, but replacements were a little expensive. I then bought an Amprobe (now owned by Fluke) which is an ok bit of kit, abut more DIY, but they do better testers, cheaper than Fluke.
I’ve since bought a Fluke 117 (second hand from eBay), which hasn’t had much use. I use my 2 pole voltage tester more, probably because I don’t want to damage my multimeter
, but also because you’re now supposed to use these for dead testing.
Martindale produce decent equipment, so I’ll say it’s probably a decent piece of equipment, and ok as a multimeter.
I then damaged the probes, but replacements were a little expensive. I then bought an Amprobe (now owned by Fluke) which is an ok bit of kit, abut more DIY, but they do better testers, cheaper than Fluke.
I’ve since bought a Fluke 117 (second hand from eBay), which hasn’t had much use. I use my 2 pole voltage tester more, probably because I don’t want to damage my multimeter
, but also because you’re now supposed to use these for dead testing.Martindale produce decent equipment, so I’ll say it’s probably a decent piece of equipment, and ok as a multimeter.
Your Martindale ET5 does everything a reasonable multimeter would do, and to me looks a decent piece of kit.
I've an electrical background, and use a (Megger) Avo 410 amongst others, but your ET5 has jaws, and temperature measurement as well, so seems pretty well suited to me. It seems to have protection from being 'blown up' through selecting an incorrect range!
Just a question of getting familiar with it I guess?
General advice on fault-finding will be equally valid for any high impedance digital meter.
Don't use the ET5 voltage sensing feature for dead testing though! As per Undertrained, use a 2 pole voltage tester for that.
I use a Martindale one of those
I've an electrical background, and use a (Megger) Avo 410 amongst others, but your ET5 has jaws, and temperature measurement as well, so seems pretty well suited to me. It seems to have protection from being 'blown up' through selecting an incorrect range!
Just a question of getting familiar with it I guess?
General advice on fault-finding will be equally valid for any high impedance digital meter.
Don't use the ET5 voltage sensing feature for dead testing though! As per Undertrained, use a 2 pole voltage tester for that.
I use a Martindale one of those
Seeing as the answer might save my life, what's the advantage of a 2-pole voltage tester over a multimeter set to AC Volts scales and then DC Volts scales other than you risk selecting the wrong scale and burning the circuitry?Don't use the ET5 voltage sensing feature for dead testing though! As per Undertrained, use a 2 pole voltage tester for that.
I use a Martindale one of those
IMO, the non-contact voltage measurement feature is of limited use. You can't rely on it to prove a dead circuit but it might be useful in some circumstances, e.g. tracing a live cable.
Typical fault finding needs only very basic scales; volts and ohms mostly, amps occasionally. An audible continuity test is also nice to have. The ET5 has a backlight for the display and 'torch' facility, which is a plus for usability but it doesn't have scales for currents in the range 0.1mA – 1A, which is a minus. For work on heating/plumbing systems 'rugged' trumps 'precise'.
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Deleted member 120897
Where did non contact voltage indicator’s come into it?
The ET5 has a 'non-contact' voltage probe feature built into one of the jaw tips. Maybe useful, but not something to use for dead testing!
Edit - sorry Chuck - beat me to it
As an aside, I hadn't noticed that the ET5 dc current ranges started at 0.1A so that is less sensitive than a typical multimeter.
I think it can only measure current using the 'jaws', so you can't use the leads for that.
How often do you need to measure low-ish currents with boiler maintenance - I'm interested to hear if this is an issue?
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Deleted member 120897
I can’t say I’ve ever needed to measure currents for a boiler or heating system, other may have and can verify.
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It can be helpful when having a look at pumps low amp modes as most pull around 0.2 amps or less
AFAIK, the Fluke 113 doesn't measure AC or DC current at all so I'd keep the ET5.
My preferred option, however, would be to trade up to the Fluke 115, which adds DC and AC current ranges and is designed for field technicians, which matches your profile a bit better. A bit more expensive than the 113 but it's a tool and I consider a good tools to be an investment.
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Strictly speaking, yes, you should have a 2 pole tester as well.
The reason being it is thought too easy to set a meter to the wrong range, or the meter might be faulty, or the user mis-interpret the reading as safe when it's not etc. etc.
The idea is that a 2-pole tester is much more likely to give a reliable indication, and is unambiguous.
And from a HASAWA angle, a professional would be expected to have the appropriate equipment for the job
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Deleted member 120897
If you work for a firm, possibly the same might apply to subbying, you’ll be bound by their working practices as well.
It’s quite funny you say this. Out of the companies I’ve worked for as PAYE, I’ve never seen another engineer carry out any safe isolation practices. Even when I’ve worked along side the company owner.Strictly speaking, yes, you should have a 2 pole tester as well.
The reason being it is thought too easy to set a meter to the wrong range, or the meter might be faulty, or the user mis-interpret the reading as safe when it's not etc. etc.
The idea is that a 2-pole tester is much more likely to give a reliable indication, and is unambiguous.
And from a HASAWA angle, a professional would be expected to have the appropriate equipment for the job
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Deleted member 120897
Tbf though, I don’t if I’m working at the boiler, seems pointless with local isolation at the spur. Majority of stuff is a tick box exercise, but as long as you can prove you can do it, then that’s all that matters.
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Deleted member 120897
True, and appreciate the comments, but I’d say 95% of our housing stock is combi boilers. Sometimes I do check, or there are times I do have to check.
Assuming that the house was correctly wired with the fuses in the live feeds.
And the second thing that apprentices are taught (right after how to make the tea) is that you never 'assume' things. (The first is how to make tea properly.)
Ah. Good old British wiring where there is a fuse you can remove and where there is such a concept as polarity. Things I miss about England...
The only problem with 2-pole testers is they are (probably) absolutely useless in places such as the flat where I am currently living where switching is often on the neutral, it is all single-core cable in conduit, some of the earth cables don't actually go anywhere, and choice of cable colour does not necessarily follow standard practice. Either it's a very long lead to a known earth or neutral or you have to double-check any test with a death stick or finger flick technique.
Probably a professional electrician would have ways around these problems.
The only problem with 2-pole testers is they are (probably) absolutely useless in places such as the flat where I am currently living where switching is often on the neutral, it is all single-core cable in conduit, some of the earth cables don't actually go anywhere, and choice of cable colour does not necessarily follow standard practice. Either it's a very long lead to a known earth or neutral or you have to double-check any test with a death stick or finger flick technique.
Probably a professional electrician would have ways around these problems.
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Deleted member 120897
Wouldn’t have thought neutral switching would matter that much, as you test L-N, L-E and N-E, so as long as it’s all dead, wouldn’t matter?
True, but if you also find the green/yellow cable isn't earthed because the sparkie ran out of cables in the nearest junction, then you can't test L-E when the circuit is isolated which leaves you only with a L-N test. A L-N test does not prove the L is no longer live as you might have just isolated the neutral.
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Deleted member 120897
Does this apply to all countries, eg an international standard? Ric is currently in Italy iirc.
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