Those of you with apprentices

[mfgs]

I have had an apprentice for 3 months now. He is doing ok, and just ok. I have put a lot of time in to teaching him etc but at the moment the only real thing he is good for is tidying up and getting the tools. Last night I get a text message at 9.30 which reads "Alright mate have just been thinking, iv been with you a while now and I think I have progressed a lot in that time so id like to suggest a raise in wages please mate. Lemme know what you think"

He is on £3.30 an hour, so above the minimum wage for a first year apprentice, but he certainly doesn't earn me any more than I pay him in a week. To be honest the cheek of asking has really wound me up. He has been far from the model employee to date and I have given him possibly more chances than I should have done. Examples of this are taking breaks for cigarettes when it has been made clear that the only time for smoking is lunch time, after doing any small amount of physical work I have caught him just sitting around having a break or walking off to the shop, not being ready when I pick him up from his house in the mornings. I am now thinking about getting rid of him if this is a sign of things to come. I never once asked for a pay rise while I was an apprentice, I was happy for the opportunity to be taught the trade I wanted to do.

Anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?

 

[EPH]

Three months isn't long enough to either be able to be in a position to help you that much or be asking for a pay rise in all honesty.

How old is he, you getting subsidised?

 

[Kev the gas]

Few thoughts come to mind :-
firstly a bollocking for txting at 9.30 pm on a Saturday night, for not having the balls to ask to your face needing his mates to egg him on.

Then tell him to give up the **** and save £10 a day. He probably could earn more now stacking shelves, but in 10 years time he will still be stacking.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

i dont have an apprentice and to be honest i dont think i ever will. The youth nowadays dont want to learn .. they just want an easy ride. I had a tough time as an apprentice because i really wanted to learn but the guys i was put with were on price work and were too greedy to show me much .. just a gopher for first 2 years .. but that made me more determined to learn .. do that to a young un now and they will just huff off.

Heard a tale from a bloke round here where his apprentice was selling his tools from back of van while he was working inside!

Good young lads are hard to come by and i think in your case mate id bin him off.

 

[Hybrid]

"Pay rise!? I was thinking of laying you off to be honest."
He's put in his place and you've made it clear you're not happy with his performance. If he sticks his bottom lip out and quits it tells you everything you need to know. Job done.

 

[Masood]

Sit him down and tell him exactly what you've written here. He obviously has a far higher opinion of himself than he ought to, and he needs to be told a few home truths.

I'd have more respect for someone if they started the conversation by asking "How do you think I'm progressing? I was wondering if I deserved a bit of a pay rise?" Rather than telling you he thinks he deserves one! Cheeky little so-and-so!

 

[mfgs]

Three months isn't long enough to either be able to be in a position to help you that much or be asking for a pay rise in all honesty.

How old is he, you getting subsidised?

He is 17, I have not yet applied for the grant from the government so at the moment every penny I pay him is costing me money. No he shouldn't be asking for a pay rise until about a year in if at all. I am by no means an overly harsh boss, he gets picked up and dropped to his door 99% of the time, he has had a fair few 2pm finishes and still got a full days money. I just expect good time keeping and a level of respect shown.

Few thoughts come to mind :-
firstly a bollocking for txting at 9.30 pm on a Saturday night, for not having the balls to ask to your face needing his mates to egg him on.

Then tell him to give up the **** and save £10 a day. He probably could earn more now stacking shelves, but in 10 years time he will still be stacking.

I got the text when I was in the pub last night and to be honest I had to hold back telling him not to bother coming in to work on Monday, it really wound me up. He is going to be getting a bollocking for it first thing Monday and his reaction to it will more than likely decide his fate. When ever he is picked up on doing anything wrong he goes on the defensive and will never apologise, so a reaction like that will be the end of him.

I know £3.30 is not a lot of money today, but its a lot more than I was getting 10 years ago and I had to pay to travel to work. it is also significantly over the minimum wage which he was told he would start on, but I decided to go a bit higher in the hope of getting a little more commitment. Not only that but it is an education first and a job second in my eyes.

 

[Hybrid]

Not only that but it is an education first and a job second in my eyes.

Spot on. He's getting paid to learn.

 

[mfgs]

Sit him down and tell him exactly what you've written here. He obviously has a far higher opinion of himself than he ought to, and he needs to be told a few home truths.

I'd have more respect for someone if they started the conversation by asking "How do you think I'm progressing? I was wondering if I deserved a bit of a pay rise?" Rather than telling you he thinks he deserves one! Cheeky little so-and-so!

Yeah he clearly is getting a bit cocky and that is not a trait I like in someone. I couldn't actually believe he said "id like to suggest a raise in wages". I would like to suggest he picks his tools up and does on haha.

 

[rpm]

Once given a bollocking infront of the trainee when the MD saw him sitting on his arse, was told it was up to me to keep him busy not the other way round so I made him find me after completeing every task and he had to tell me if he wanted to go to the shops or there would be hell to pay.
As for the text I would ignore it and when he asks tell him that these things are done face to face and bring up the point of being ready to roll in the mornings.

 

[Millsy 82]

When I used to be an apprentice I used to go in every 6 months and ask for a pay rise. My theory was if you don't ask you don't get, it was always in person though as mobiles weren't big back then, I was also on £44 a week then £55 a week and that was how it went on for 4 years!

Having trained a few apprentices I think 3 months is very early and most of mine were probably only hanging rads tidying up fetching tools and did the odd bit of soldering out of place so they couldn't set fire to the place. They generally don't get any good until 1 year+ (there have been exceptions).

I would say to him no1 he should ask you to your face not a text when he is pi55ed up with his mates. Then no2 give him areas that he needs to improve before he will even be considered for a pay rise ie always be ready for when you get picked up (I had to make my own way to an office) no sloping off for a crafty ciggie, not being asked to do this and that. Also start giving him more to do as you don't learn doing nothing, I remember my first 3-4 months all I did was knock flue holes out and clean up, it was so boring! I hated it and kept slipping off for a ciggie it was only when I started getting more to do that I started picking up and smoking less.

 

[Millsy 82]

Once given a bollocking infront of the trainee when the MD saw him sitting on his arse, was told it was up to me to keep him busy not the other way round/QUOTE]

Absolutely right as well. They need to learn they don't know what to do straight away. They have probably come from mummy doing everything for them and a school telling them what they have to do all the time to working they do need telling what to do.

 

[Rickster123]

I was on 90 quid a week for 4 years. It never went up, I never asked for it to go up either. Mainly because I didn't have the balls to ask for it and it would've been seen as bad manners. There's guys lining up down the street waiting to work for free. I'd remind him just how fortunate he is.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

It's ok to ask for more money in my opinion of:-

He's earning you money

AND

He asks you in person not via a text message in the middle of the night.

 

[Dotty]

When I was an aprentice I was on my way in to work one morning when I saw another young lad from my college. There were 4 guys swapping stuff from one van to another with this young lad looking confused stuck in the middle of it all with his hands in his pockets.

I thought to myself "That will never be me." And it never was. I always found something to do, even if it was sweeping up and tidying up before the job was complete just to keep the workspace tidy.

I got pay rises before I even had to think of asking for them.

 

[oz-plumber]

This kid needs a talking to..

I'm not one for giving a bollocking in front of others, i prefer the assassin approach.

One on one - calm and firm.

Some people need to be pulled down a rung or two and be informed on the principles of reality.
If that doesn't work - let him go.
No point in having someone on that is not going to be any benefit to you.

I would let him know there are plenty of vacancies for courier drivers

 

[Ray Stafford]

You have to decide first what outcome you want.

If you actually already wanted to get rid of him, and this is just the convenient excuse, then be honest with yourself, and with him.

If you think there may be something to be made of the lad, then think about the best way to bring out the good in him. That might be a bollocking, but equally it might be a fatherly chat. Or it might involve a sit-down with him and his parents. Or all three.

Certainly don't stew over it. He's just a youngster being a d1ck - something that every male person on this forum did several dozen times in the their late teens.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Agree with Ray, he's still a puppy, give him a slap and move on.

Do you know/speak to his parents?

 

[chris watkins]

You have to decide first what outcome you want.

If you actually already wanted to get rid of him, and this is just the convenient excuse, then be honest with yourself, and with him.

If you think there may be something to be made of the lad, then think about the best way to bring out the good in him. That might be a bollocking, but equally it might be a fatherly chat. Or it might involve a sit-down with him and his parents. Or all three.

Certainly don't stew over it. He's just a youngster being a d1ck - something that every male person on this forum did several dozen times in the their late teens.

Spot on Ray, he is 17 for god sake, in his eyes 3 months is a very long time & he has indeed learnt such a lot in that time (bet this is his first job, unlike most of us he was not out working at crack of sparrows up chimneys from the age of 12).

He has no idea what so ever just how much he still has to learn or that those thing he has been doing really p1ss you off, so tell him, then give him targets to meet before any rewards are forthcoming and it don't have to be money, how about getting him tools from time to time that way he can be more useful as well?

Both of you have invested a good deal of time & effort in this relationship isn't it worth a go to salvage it ???

 

[mutley racers]

I have had an apprentice for 3 months now. He is doing ok, and just ok. I have put a lot of time in to teaching him etc but at the moment the only real thing he is good for is tidying up and getting the tools. Last night I get a text message at 9.30 which reads "Alright mate have just been thinking, iv been with you a while now and I think I have progressed a lot in that time so id like to suggest a raise in wages please mate. Lemme know what you think"

He is on £3.30 an hour, so above the minimum wage for a first year apprentice, but he certainly doesn't earn me any more than I pay him in a week. To be honest the cheek of asking has really wound me up. He has been far from the model employee to date and I have given him possibly more chances than I should have done. Examples of this are taking breaks for cigarettes when it has been made clear that the only time for smoking is lunch time, after doing any small amount of physical work I have caught him just sitting around having a break or walking off to the shop, not being ready when I pick him up from his house in the mornings. I am now thinking about getting rid of him if this is a sign of things to come. I never once asked for a pay rise while I was an apprentice, I was happy for the opportunity to be taught the trade I wanted to do.

Anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?

No way, I have been telling all my mates and wife how nice it was that you had one and how he did all the tidying up and pipe cutting and lagging and scrubbing pipe clean. Envious I was. Now, I am not so. I did think though that you won generous with his cig breaks☺

 

[plumben]

I have had an apprentice for 3 months now. He is doing ok, and just ok. I have put a lot of time in to teaching him etc but at the moment the only real thing he is good for is tidying up and getting the tools. Last night I get a text message at 9.30 which reads "Alright mate have just been thinking, iv been with you a while now and I think I have progressed a lot in that time so id like to suggest a raise in wages please mate. Lemme know what you think"

He is on £3.30 an hour, so above the minimum wage for a first year apprentice, but he certainly doesn't earn me any more than I pay him in a week. To be honest the cheek of asking has really wound me up. He has been far from the model employee to date and I have given him possibly more chances than I should have done. Examples of this are taking breaks for cigarettes when it has been made clear that the only time for smoking is lunch time, after doing any small amount of physical work I have caught him just sitting around having a break or walking off to the shop, not being ready when I pick him up from his house in the mornings. I am now thinking about getting rid of him if this is a sign of things to come. I never once asked for a pay rise while I was an apprentice, I was happy for the opportunity to be taught the trade I wanted to do.

Anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?

If you don't want him give him the sack
tell him what he needs to know,
Let him know that he's not ready for a pay rise yet,
Give him an alternative, tools they don't have to be the best "bachos" but
Advise that bachos are the better tool.... if you see what I mean I wish idd been told things like that

As for being late, you've got to remember if he's only been working 3 months he's probley used to getting up at 2pm, you could always send a text before you leave then he's got no excuse

 

[Masood]

As for being late, you've got to remember if he's only been working 3 months he's probley used to getting up at 2pm, you could always send a text before you leave then he's got no excuse

NO! Absolutely not! It is NOT for the employer to mother his apprentice. If the boy wants a job, he has to organise and motivate himself to get up, get ready and get out of the door. Unbelievable!

If you worked for a firm and were late in the mornings would you expect an alarm call or a warning? How is that teaching the lad to take responsibility for himself? At 17 he should know how to set an alarm!

 

[kay-jay]

organise a public stoning! that will sort his attitude out. :wazzzup:

 

[Masood]

organise a public stoning! that will sort his attitude out. :wazzzup:

He's probably stoned most days anyway!

 

[plumben]

NO! Absolutely not! It is NOT for the employer to mother his apprentice. If the boy wants a job, he has to organise and motivate himself to get up, get ready and get out of the door. Unbelievable!

If you worked for a firm and were late in the mornings would you expect an alarm call or a warning? How is that teaching the lad to take responsibility for himself? At 17 he should know how to set an alarm!

I'll agree yes theres no excuse to not being up and ready
but whenever I pick someone up it takes me two seconds to let them know I'm on my way
And if they haven't let me know they'll be late by the second beep on the horn I'm gone and they've got no excuse

 

[kay-jay]

Being late is unnacceptable......

Unless im the one thats late in which case its perfectly fine.

 

[Dotty]

I never got a text when I was an apprentice. I never got picked up either.

I had to be at the yard at 7.45 each morning. If I was late. I'd be left behind. And then I'd have to explain to my manager why I was late. And unless it was beyond my control I'd be for the high jump.

Kids these days get life handed to them on a plate. I don't subscribe to that school of thought.

I won't teach a kid unless he shows an interest and is always asking me relevant questions, and then I'll do everything to help them learn. I never give a straight answer either. I guide them into working it out for themselves.

If they're not interested why should I waste my time and effort?

 

[Masood]

Kids these days get life handed to them on a plate. I don't subscribe to that school of thought.

I won't teach a kid unless he shows an interest and is always asking me relevant questions, and then I'll do everything to help them learn. I never give a straight answer either. I guide them into working it out for themselves.

If they're not interested why should I waste my time and effort?

Absolutely. My normal answer to questions, be it from a trainee or my daughter (14) is "Well, what do YOU think?" or "How do YOU think it works?" The difference between them learning by numbers or gaining a real understanding which enables them to figure out future problems.

My missus teaches maths and despairs at new rules which basically mean they only have time and resources to spoon-feed the kids what they need to pass GCSE. We're creating a generation of robots with no ability to analyse and reason.

 

[dom brennan]

I've just finished my level 2 and just started level 3, I'm on £100 per week for around 45-50 hours per week. I've not once complained about my wages once ,I've thought of asking for a pay rise but I've not got the guts. when we are on boiler swaps my job is to drain down, take the old boiler off why my boss is at the merchants getting the new one, then i hang the new one and pipe it up and do the electrics why he's doing the flue and condensate. from the day i stated i put away £15 per week to buy tools. I've just bought a van out of my own money. i use that to do small jobs for him. one thing i do is take home the old boilers and weigh them in we used only give them scrap men anyway i get about £18 per boiler if i strip them down.
By the way I'm 18 and if I'm late i get a warning and if I'm late twice i would probably see the door.

 

[Destroyer2813]

If he's late leave him behind happened to me a couple of times when I first started out when I slepped through the alarm he'll soon work it out when it reflects in his wages